An Extraordinary Conversation Regarding Herbalife.

Here is a long conversation with an herbalife distributor from about a year and a half ago. I am not a big fan of herbalife.

This is pretty long and there are no pictures, but the end is spectacular! The emails on pink background are from a gal named Mary J. We disagreed.

 

June 26th, 2004

Hello silly rob. You are a silly silly man aren't you? I looked at the stuff you said "Herbalife" does. I'm with Global Online Systems and we don't do any of that crap. What the hell is that 14 pages crap? That's completely ridiculous. All I know is, I've only been in it 2 weeks and I've already made $1150. Yesterday I made $750 alone.

I can't wait to see how much more I make. Too bad you're so dead set against it. But in all honesty, that's why we've got the "Decision Package" you speak so fondly of, to weed people who don't have the talent or drive to make as much as we do OUT! People like you, in other words. But no worries, here, Rob. For every skeptic out there like you with no hope, there are even more people who want to achieve their dreams and are willing to take the risk-free chance. The decision package is a money-back guarantee. Get a clue, Rob! I don't know, you probably make a lot more than I've made so far. Of course, you've been doing whatever you've been doing for years. I've only been in it 2 weeks and look how far I've come. Did you make that much money the first two weeks you were in whatever your career is? Well, I guess that's all I have to say. I just love it to point it out to people who are ignorant just exactly how ignorant they are! Feel free to reply with any nasty, patronizing comments you wish to make. Have a nice life.
 
Mary J.
 
Hi Mary J. 

Thanks for writing. 

Global online systems still advertises on the job search site "monster.com". 
I get lots of letters about it. 
Here are seven pages of them here: 
http://www.cockeyed.com/workfromhome/monster_ads.html 

How long have known about herbalife? How long does it take to become an expert? 

-Rob Cockerham 
Sacramento 
June 28th, 2004

Yeah, I read the letters. Mostly from a bunch of skeptics, like yourself, who have neither the talent, nor the drive, nor the ambition, to make as much money as we do, yes, we do, the people in Global Online Systems. It's no scam, all I have to do is look at the money I'm making. Shame on you, Rob. Trying to cheat people out of making the income of their dreams. I know, that sounds like hype. But one by one, my dreams are coming true, and I'm not lying to you. I get better at this every single day, and every single day my income increases. If I were lying, I wouldn't take the time to write you this letter. I would send you a convenient auto-responder. The truth is, I feel sorry for you, and all of those poor folks who can't see past their own insecurities far enough to try something that is completely risk-free. I do want to thank you, however, for responding in a cordial manner.

One more thing. We don't use those silly UGLY signs! I would be ashamed of myself if I had to do such a thing! I look at those signs myself and know that it's probably a scam! Why would I put up advertising I wouldn't even believe myself?? And I thank God for the advertising I have on monster.com! That's where most of my recruits come from! And they are so thrilled to be with me, and I am so thrilled to be with them. Tell that to your scared-stiff supporters and their letters. If they're not willing to make a change, we tell them straight out, hey, then this is probably not for you!

Oh well, I suppose nothing I say will make you stop and think about your own thoughts; who am I but a successful Global Online Systems person who just started in the business and already has made $1600 in under 3 weeks. That's right, it grew since last time I e-mailed you. But like I said in my last letter, no worries. I've already got recruits who are ready to live their dreams, just as I am doing, and I know I'll get many, MANY more, expert or not. I don't have to be an "expert" to see that the money is rolling in, do you? Yet, I am the CEO and President of my own company! I'm expert enough to already be making GREAT money. I don't know how you can't absolutely love that! I do.

Thanks again for your swift and cordial response. Maybe I'll hear from you again. Have a blessed and great day.

Best regards,

Mary J.

Hi Mary, 
 
You should cool it on the insults. 
 
You advertise on Monster.com? Do you think that is ethical? It is a job site, not a small business site, everyone knows that. 
All the GOS ads I've seen on Monster.com are full of lies. Do you at least your real name in the ad? Do you mention herbalife? 
 
-Rob Cockerham 
 
June 28th, 2004

Rob,

Thanks for your swift and cordial response again.

You're right, I should cool it on the insults. I apologize. I was just being human, firing back to the insults you've aimed at Global Online Systems. Seriously, though, you're right, and I'm not trying to be patronizing to you. I will try to rise above myself. Seriously, I do apologize; it was wrong and immature of me to insult you back.

In answer to your question, though, yes I do feel it is ethical for me to advertise on Monster.com. Full of lies?? Have you gotten that legally proven by a lawyer? I'd like to see you try it. The reason the ads are allowed there is because NONE OF IT is lies! You're not going to be successful at getting our ads off of Monster.com, because our ads are 100% accurate and true. Do you really think Monster.com would let itself be liable to a company that was a complete lie or scam? They could get sued for millions! They know what's up. Do you?

A lot of people who are looking for jobs would love to work from home! When I responded to the ad, I just wanted a job myself. But then when I found out that it was possible for me to own my own business and find out more about it for just 39.95 with a money-back guarantee, I thought about it for a little while, and I thought, "It WOULD be great to be my own boss and set my own hours and possibly make over 100 grand a year. I get my money back if I don't like it, so what is there to lose?" Plus business exploration is COMPLETELY tax deductible. Even if I went really really far with the business and later decided to stop and get my money back, I COULD, plus a lot more at tax time.

This is the way I see it. I know you don't see it the same; that's OK. But with all due respect, Rob, you've never been in the business. You really don't have a leg to stand on, when telling other people about how bad it is. I may not be an expert yet, but you know what it takes to be an expert? At LEAST being in the business. Look at it this way: If your car broke down, would you ask a neurosurgeon for advice on how to fix it? Of course not. The neurosurgeon, though he is probably a genius, most likely has no idea about fixing cars, because he's never been in the car fixing business. Along the same line, if a logical person is thinking about starting a new business, is it logical to take the advice of someone who's never even been in it? 

Well, that was a bit of a tangent, but the way I see it is this: I'm helping people make better lives for themselves. Bottomline. My coaches are helping me make a better life for myself, and since all I have to do is copy their success, I can do that as well as teach it to the people I recruit to own their own businesses. That's extremely ethical if you ask me. 

Our ads on Monster.com are not meant to be misleading, though obviously to some people they are. We simply know that a lot of people, who start out looking for just a job, really have in mind that they would really love it if they didn't have to answer to a boss, if they could have their own hours, if they could earn what they were really worth. As I said, it wasn't what I was looking for at first, either, but thank God I found it! The serious people who really have a strong desire to make a change in their lives feel just the way I do. At least in the Global Online System. Other Herbalife distributors may be shoddy and put out trashy advertising and the ugliest 14 page paper booklets I've ever seen, but Global Online Systems does not. 

Where would you suggest we advertise, if not to job seekers? When people click on our ads, then get the decision package, we call them (yes, a real live person calls them, not a voice recording!) and go through it with them. We tell them straight out that it is not just a job, it is owning a business, and that it is a completely different mindset. If they didn't know it before, we tell them then. Some people just click on the ads and request a call for more information, not ordering the Decision Package. We call them, too, and let them know it's owning a business and not just a job. If a person clicks on the ad and doesn't request more information, fine, we won't give them any! We're not pushy. People just come to us because they want to work from home, have their own hours, and earn what they're worth! By advertising on Monster.com, we're simply giving regular people the opportunity, if they choose to take it, to change their lives dramatically for the better. 

I'm sorry you feel it is unethical to help people have better lives. I must respectfully disagree. Have a great and blessed day, Rob. Maybe I'll hear from you again.

Best regards,

Mary J.



Hi Mary, 

First, I want to assure you that even though I haven't sold herbalife, I can be, and am, an expert at it. 
Just as a man can be an expert at pregnancy, and a scientist can be an expert at space travel without ever having traveled in space, I am an expert at herbalife. Besides studying it, I've also been the recipient of hundreds and hundreds of letters over the years, from all over the globe. I re-printed the letters from November of last year here: http://www.cockeyed.com/workfromhome/email2003.html 

A lot of people try selling herbalife. For the last 23 or so years, a lot of people, millions, have tried it. 
Some ratio of those people fail at it. 

If you convince 200 people to try selling herbalife this year, how many of them would you expect to succeed in making (net) more than $8 an hour? 

I can predict how many will (avoid failure) based on historical herbalife distributor numbers. It is a very, very low number. It is so low, in fact, that I think society is better served by completely abandoning the herbalife line of products and marketing. 

Have you ever considered what the failure rate is? Does that make a difference? 

-Rob 
p.s. $9 non-refundable shipping 

Rob,

Yes, I do consider the failure rate. I know it's not easy just to be an independent Herbalife distributor. First of all, though, there's no way I would want or need to recruit 200 distributors. My LIFETIME goal is to get 20 customers, and they don't even have to be distributors. Even if I only had 10 customers, I could live my life off of them. I could pay all my bills from the money they give me every month because they love the products so much. And it's not hard to get people to love the products. Just give them a couple samples, show them how to do it, and usually they're hooked. Plus, they're losing weight, or they're getting much healthier. That's not something I want to take off the market. Anyway, that's just my direct income.

Second of all, let me address the point of being "just an independent Herbalife distributor." Yes, you are right, doing that has a very high failure rate. Seriously, if all other Herbalife distributors not in Global Online Systems put up those tacky signs and send out those tacky 14-page booklets, I truly feel sorry for them. What makes us different is the way we market Herbalife. If I recruit someone to be a distributor, you know what? YES, I can guarantee they will NOT fail, IF they work consistently at the system. It doesn't have to be for 8 hours of the day either, just as long as you do it every day, and duplicate success. If they fail, it will be only because they decided they didn't want to do any work, perhaps they thought it was a get-rich quick plan where you just sit in front of the TV and money starts rolling in. But we tell people straight out that it's NOT. We tell people just what I told you, they have to work at this business, and their efforts need to be consistent. Do that, and you will NOT fail; not in Global Online Systems. 

Third of all is this. Sorry Rob. I must respectfully disagree that you are an expert in Herbalife. If that were true, you wouldn't have bashed Global Online Systems so easily. I know you have your letters, but none of those people ever tried the system. You haven't either, so NO you're not an expert on it. Why did I feel I had to explain so much to you if you're such an "expert?" Sorry, man, but you really can't say you're an expert until you've done it yourself. Your examples: a man knowing all about pregnancy--a doctor, say an OB-GYN, can study about pregancy day in and day out. But if he's never had a pregnant patient, or delivered a baby, do you think any woman would want to have this "expert" deliver her baby? I sure wouldn't. At least let him go through some trial runs with a dummy or something, but don't let ME be his first shot! Ya know? Does that make sense? A scientist who knows all about space exploration but has never been in space--if this man were in charge of going up into space and blowing up some nuclear satellite some hostile country put out there, would you send this "expert" or someone who has at least been through training as an astronaught, or someone who has been in space before? Who would you choose? My point is this: why would a logical person take advice from someone who's never been in the business (even if that person is an "expert," the way you think an "expert" is), when there are so many tons of other people that he or she can talk to who are TRUE EXPERTS in the business, who have done it before, who know how to make the money and want to pass on the system on to you?

And here is my fourth point. Yes. $9.00 non-refundable shipping. It's a LOT of money isn't it. No, actually, IT'S NOT. Ok, so you do have $9.00 to lose when you purchase the decision package. You got me on that one. I actually forgot about that. But you're completely right! It is so true. Risk $9.00, perhaps make 100 grand a year, perhaps don't do anything with it. My point is, our customers always have the choice to opt out. But once again, we are here to give them the opportunity to make better lives for themselves.

Ok I think that's it for now! I have actually enjoyed conversing with you, Rob. You are obviously an intelligient man. Hope to hear back from you soon.

Best regards,

Mary J.
Who would you rather have delivering your baby: 
A. A male, who has never himself been pregnant, but who studied childbirth for 2 years, including more than 100 letters from successful pregnant women and 100 letters from unsuccessful pregnant women, and wrote a 12-page article on pregnancy, or 

B. A woman who has been pregnant, excelled at pregnancy, and had a beautiful baby girl that she loves very much. 

Would you be tempted to call one of these people an expert? I would call the guy an expert, and the woman a veteran. 

I'd like to better explain the kind of letters I get. They are heart-wrenching. Here is one I got in March: 

Rob, 

Thanks so much for your website!! You must have heard this story a million times by now, but here's mine: I recently responded to a work from home ad in the online classifieds of my local paper. I went to their website, viewed their presentation. It was Global Online Systems. I thought their website was good, very persuasive and appealing. So I ordered the decision package. Had I known about your site, I would have know it was Herbalife. 

Three years ago, I got suckered into Newest Way to Wealth. Got the $299 
package - never made my money back (go figure!). 

It has been a little over a week since the decision package arrived. Interestingly enough, they include an herbalife presentation on how to sponsor people on the CD rom. thought maybe this time it could be different. I'm not very good at selling things (even though they tell you 
you don't have to be) and I hate putting pressure on people and dealing with objections, etc. I think the biggest point you made (for me anyway) is how saturated Herballife is online and offline. I'm so glad I found your website in time to save me from losing more money on this. I have a phone appointment with my "mentor" for the first time tomorrow morning. I'll be asking her for a refund. 

Thanks again, 

~Alicia 


Do you feel that this woman wasted her $9 shipping? I do. This dishonest approach of hiding the herbalife name tricked her. Do you hide the herbalife name in your ads? 

-Rob 

June 30th, 2004

Rob,

First of all, you forgot to include a choice C. Choice C is the male, who has never himself been pregnant, but who studied childbirth for 2 years, including more than 100 letters from successful pregnant women and 100 letters from unsuccessful pregnant women, and wrote a 12-page article on pregnancy, AND has EXPERIENCE by taking care of AT LEAST ONE!(if not hundreds of) pregnant woman! Your choice B is unacceptable!!!! That man has never delivered a baby, I DON'T want me to be his first shot! Think about it, Rob! Would it be easier to understand if we put it in a male example? If a male has prostate cancer and has to have a consultation as to whether or not one of his testicles must be removed? Who would YOU choose?

A. the female, who has never herself had a testicle, but who studied only prostate problems for 2 years, including more than 100 letters from men who got to keep both testicles as a result of their problem and 100 letters from men who lost one or both of their testicles as a result of thier problem, and wrote a 12-page article on prostate cancer

B. A man who has had prostate cancer and lived through it

or 

C. the female, who has never herself had a testicle, but who studied only prostate problems for 2 years, including more than 100 letters from men who got to keep both testicles as a result of their problem and 100 letters from men who lost one or both of their testicles as a result of their problem, and wrote a 12-page article on prostate cancer, and has treated AT LEAST ONE! (if not hundreds) of men with prostate cancer.

What I'm saying is...I HAVE a third choice. My coaches and their coaches ARE in the business and ARE making tons of money. Not only I, but your writers have a third choice too. And you know it. They are the ones a logical person would listen to when trying to make a decision about starting up their own business. So I hate to have to say it again, but shame on you, Rob, for parading yourself around as an expert, and turning these poor innocent people away from the opportunity to live their dreams. 

Once again, the lady in that letter did NOT get started in the business, so she has absolutely no idea what she is talking about, not any more than you do. Call me heartless, but NO, I do not find it "heart wrenching" that she risked $9.00. 

What I find TRULY heart wrenching is the fact that she allowed herself to be cheated by reading your website and now she just gave up the best opportunity on the planet (in my humble opinion). YOU are the one cheating people out of their money, Rob. Not me. All I get from them if they don't pursue my business is $9.00. You are robbing them of the potential to make over $10,000 each month, and all they have to do is duplicate the success of people who ARE making $10,000+ a month. Chew on that for a while. Tell me if that makes sense to you. Yeah, you could say I'm "cheating" people out of $9.00. Honestly, that doesn't bother me. You could lose a 10 dollar bill and not even know it was gone from your wallet. Right? You are CHEATING people out of living their dreams. 

Well, Rob, this time I hope you read my e-mail more carefully so that I don't have to reiterate things so often. Hope to hear from you soon.

Best regards,

Mary J.

I don't understand your prostate analogy. You are saying that it is impossible to be an expert without personally experiencing being an herbalife distributor, do I have that right? 

As for the gal that wrote, Alicia, the problem was that she had ALREADY TRIED SELLING herbalife with Newest Way to Wealth three years prior, had determined that it wasn't right for her, yet she signed up with GOS because she thought it was a different company. I'm pretty sure that was a waste of her $9. Or do you think she should keep signing up and failing until she makes it? 

Here is another letter. I got this one in March too: 

------- 

Hello 
My name is Peggy and I am one of the nuts that signed for Newest Way to Wealth. $5,000 and I have not made one cent. My sponsor will not take my calls, Herbalife would not take the products back. They said for me to call my sponsor. I tried selling my products on e-bay and got a hot letter from Herbalife to cease. they were going to take legal action against me as I was no longer a distributor. Im 64 years old living on social security. The $5,000 was put on a credit card. God help me. How could anyone be this stupid. Is there anything I can do to get some of my money back? 
Thank you 
Peggy W.


----

Rob
Please continue reading page two of the Herbalife Conversation.

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