An Extraordinary Conversation Regarding Herbalife.

An Extraordinary Conversation Regarding Herbalife. - Page 2

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Rob, No silly. I don't think she should sign up and keep failing. She wouldn't be signing up AGAIN, she would be signing up with Global Online Systems, the best and fastest growing division of Herbalife in the world. You're being silly again, Rob. As for the prostate analogy, read it again, perhaps it will make more sense the second time around. It's actually exactly like your pregnancy analogy, except there are 3 choices, and I switched it to a man who has the problem and a woman is the doctor, so you might understand it better, since you don't seem to understand why a pregnant woman would not want a doctor who had never performed the operation before but had studied it all his life when there are doctors out there who HAVE performed the operation before who have also studied it all their lives. Again, who would YOU choose? Yes, the point is, NO YOU'RE NOT A TRUE EXPERT UNLESS YOU'VE ACTUALLY DONE WHATEVER IT IS YOU CLAIM TO BE AN EXPERT IN!!!!! Here's another one for you-- if you studied day in and day out about how to play the clarinet, do you really think you would be an expert at playing the clarinet if you had never played it before?? I would absolutely LOVE to hear the terrible sounds that came out of that person, just to prove to YOU how WRONG it is to believe you are an expert when you've never even been in the business!! Wow, that second story is very sad. I am extremely disappointed in the Herbalife supervisor that did that to that poor old lady. What is that system called again, "Newest Way to Wealth"? Ok, obviously, you've gotten letters from people who say that system is terrible. And I believe those letters. I believe THAT is a terrible system, and they are another one of the companies out there giving Herbalife a bad name. However, AS I'VE SAID SO MANY TIMES BEFORE, Global Online Systems is different. I, and no one involved in Global Online Systems, did that to either one of those people, NOR have we ever done that to anyone. If we did, we'd go out of business. But look what's happened...we're still here! People on our teams are making money! Yes!!!! And you are what is called a "dream stealer!" I still don't understand how people choose to believe a person they've never even met, but they've looked at a website that may or may not be true, and obviously a TON of it is not true if you're including Global Online Systems in the companies you bash; they choose to believe a website over a live actual phone call! It is absolutely heart wrenching to me that you want to stop people from achieving their dreams. Our system is a good one. It is honest. It is true. I guarantee you that it works. I GUARANTEE IT. You don't like it, you get your money BACK. Plus business exploration is totally tax deductible. But to succeed, all you have to do is duplicate success and work consistently. CAN YOU GUARANTEE IT WILL FAIL?? I don't think so!!!!! Come on, Rob. I hope you read this one carefully, and the last one. I know I'm long winded, but you know what? This is SO much fun for me. Why do you think I always end with "I look forward to hearing from you," or something like that? Every time you come up with an argument, I turn right around and trump you each time. You're missing my points even when I say "the point is this!!" That's why I keep having to repeat myself. It is YOUR website that is full of lies, NOT mine. And I could take that to court, but I choose not to waste that much time on you. You're actually not a threat at all, Rob. Does that surprise you? Have you been deriving power from the fact that some people are getting turned away from Global Online Systems, turned away from making tons of money, turned away from being a billion times healthier, all because of your website? You shouldn't. I'm still making good money, and it grows EVERY DAY. I'm also losing weight, feeling spectacular, and looking it. My recruits and customers grow every day. I'm glad that you are so happy with yourself for steering financially needy people away from the most excellent work from home business in the world. I'm glad that you are so happy with yourself for feeding off of people's insecurities and stopping them from achieving the income of their dreams. You must absolutely LOVE yourself. Seriously Rob, are you happy? You seem to me like a person who is MISERABLE. I am happy. I'm happy to be conversing with you, happy to be taking and selling Herbalife, happy to be in Global Online Systems, happy to be helping people make better lives for themselves, happy to be making a better life for myself, happy just being alive! Can you say the same? Well, Rob, I guess that's all for now. If you don't understand the prostate analogy, read it again and compare it to your pregnancy analogy; you'll see it's exactly the same. Once again, Rob, try to read more carefully so I don't have to keep repeating myself. I look forward to hearing from you again. Best regards, Mary J.
Mary, Do you think that Global Online systems is really that different from NWTW? Do you know anything about NWTW? They were huge a few years ago, but you are so new to this, maybe you've never heard of them. Herbalife, or any small business is a bad move for a lot of people. With information, people can get information (mostly for free) that will give them a grip on what the upfront costs and likely benefits will be. Herbalife hides the costs and over-emphasizes the likely benefits. Here is an unsuccessful story I was sent in June: I wish I had read your story before I was suckered into this. I had just ordered this global online system. It cost me $ 48.95. You are so right, when you watch the video, or the CD, or read the wookbook it mentions nothing about Herbalife. Well when I called my "PERSONAL COACH" the number she had given me came up as TALK AMERICA the phone company, so I e-mailed her. She soon called me back, but my machine answered it. I then called her back again from the other number that she called me from, and once again it came up TALK AMERICA. When she called back again, and I spoke to her for all of about 20 minutes I found out that there was nothing I could do to make money unless I had as she put it another $399.00 for a kit. She gave me the password to get onto site 5&6 on the CD and thats when I saw everything else you were talking about. You know the thing that really stinks, is that I am struggling so bad right now, having a son in college, taking care of my mom that has no money, and I just recently lost a business, with 2 other children to take care of, and it was so hard for me to even decide to give the $48.00 to get the first kit, because I could have used that money for my family instead of throwing it away on there scam. Now I stuck with this kit and no way to make money unless I have alot of other money. Well I was glad I read you entire story I only wish I had done it first. Do you know if there is anyway for me to get my money back, or is it not worth even trying. Great story. Sophia Rob
Rob, you don't seem to be getting any of the points I'm making. Or maybe you're getting them, but since you're not responding to them, you know I'm right. That's my guess, since you are an intelligient guy. Why did you send me that letter? Once again, the lady, JUST LIKE YOU, has never been in the Global Online Systems, so she doesn't, LIKE YOU, know a thing about what she's talking about. And you KNOW that she can get the money she paid for the decison package back, yes, $39.95 if she ships it back to her coach. Heck, give her my e-mail and I'll give her $39.95! I have it to spare! No, wait, I have it to THROW AWAY! Let her know I said that, if you want! Almost all businesses with money back guarantees work that way. Yes, she lost $9.00 too. Oh no!!! How will she ever make $9.00 back?? It is SO HEART WRENCHING!!!! Please. Once again, I say to you, Rob, SHAME on you. What you are doing, feeding on people's insecurities, stealing their dreams, is SO FAR WORSE than them losing $9.00 to me. Second of all, the Decision Package does exactly what it is called, it helps you MAKE A DECISION as to whether or not you want to start. If you don't like what you see, you send it back for a refund of the total cost of the package less shipping. Third of all, 399 is NOT a lot of money to start a business. If you were to start a McDonalds franchise, it would cost you half a million dollars!!! Yeah, it does take startup capitol to start a new business!!! DUH!!!! We tell people that too, in a much nicer way, of course. If they don't have the capitol, they can't start it, and if they don't want to save the money to get it started later on in their lives, they can send the Decision Package back for a refund. It's all so simple, so honest, so straightforward, and so incredibly effective. Fourthly, no, I don't know a thing about NWTW, nor do I care. I know they must be a bad company to leave their customers hanging like that. We are not NWTW, we are Global Online Systems. Get it through your head, and stop giving me e-mails about some other company that I am in no way related to except that we both sell Herbalife. One of us, (GOS) knows how to market Herbalife effectively, and the other (NWTW) obviously doesn't. Thank God I'm not with them. Herbalife is excellent products, and we know how to market them effectively. Fifthly, WE don't hide the costs. We tell you straight out after you've looked at the Decision Package what it costs to become a distributor. From then on out, it depends on what they want to do with their distributorship whether or not they will spend more money at the time. We tell them that up front too. If they can't do it, they send the 399 package back, and their money is REFUNDED. Rob, get a CLUE. All those other companies that are subdivisions of Herbalife may suck, but GOS does not. You've given me peoples letters, and whatever else reasoning you've given me, but I've proven you wrong on EVERY SINGLE point. You KNOW it. Just to sum up, here are the main points: 1. you're not an expert 2. you steal people's dreams, parading as an expert 3. your website is full of lies about GOS 4. OUR website is nothing but truth 5. Decision Packages are refundable less shipping 6. $399 start up packages are refundable 7. We don't put up tacky pole signs 8. We don't put out tacky 14-page booklets 9. $399 is not much to start a BUSINESS 10. Many Herbalife companies suck, but ours GUARANTEES success if the person is willing to work consistently and duplicate others' success 11. YOU cannot guarantee failure, though you claim to 12. We are up front about all costs, we operate on a need-to-know basis. If they're not going to go any further, they don't need to know how much it will cost them. We wait to see if it is even possible for them to go any further (by talking and getting to know them and teaching them), then we tell them how much it will cost them to take the next step in building their business. 13. a pregnant woman would NOT want a doctor who has never delivered a baby before to deliver her baby, and finally, 14. I am trying to help people make better lives for themselves!! Well, I guess that's about it for now. Perhaps I'll enjoy proving you wrong again soon. Best regards, Mary J.
Hi Mary. I'll try to answer all of your concerns, but it is hard, because your letters are really long, and cover so much material. Here are your 14 points: 1. you're not an expert My reply to this is that I am an expert. There are probably people who know more about herbalife, but I know a lot. You are caught up in this logic-trap that defines an expert as someone who tried herbalife, but that hasn't failed at herbalife. Unfortunately, this would mean that only people who support and glorify herbalife are experts at it. I should also point out that I know more than I have written on the website. It takes a lot of effort and time and information to write an interesting, illustrated, cohesive story like the first 12 pages of the herbalife story. 2. you steal people's dreams, parading as an expert Stealing dreams. Give me a break. Here, I'll post a new dream for my readers: Hey! You are awesome! You CAN become a basketball star! It is EASY! People all over the world are doing it! Earn big money like Shaq and Kobe! (results not typical) You can be any color, and come from any country, like Peja! You can make $$$$$. You can be a woman, or even in a wheelchair! PERFECT FOR HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS! But you have to work hard! It is very hard, but easy! You are just playing basketball! Throw a ball into the hoop! REAL TOUGH! Just send $36 to get started, then start dribbling your way to fame and fortune! Dreams aren't hard to dream up. They just take a minute. It is the success that is difficult, and that takes good, reliable information. I'm giving that away on my awesome, dream-stealing website. 3. your website is full of lies about GOS You disagree with my conclusions, but the facts are correct. If you disagree with any facts in the article including the epilogue), I will explain them. The other side of this is your gos recruiting websites on monster.com. why don't you tell me which ones are yours, and we can examine the information on those too. 4. OUR website is nothing but truth Yes, that is a good idea, lets examine your website. Are you talking about your personal recruiting site, the main GOS site or the Herbalife site? 5. Decision Packages are refundable less shipping Selling something that can be refunded isn't good enough. What if you buy a can of corn, and there is no corn inside? Is the refundability good enough? It has to be a good product too, which the decision package isn't. It isn't a good package because it only shows success stories and sales pitches, with very little information with which a person could make an informed decision, such as the real cost of starting up a business and the historical success rate of herbalife distributors. 6. $399 start up packages are refundable Damn, either you don't know, or you think I am a real greenhorn. Some people say that you can't open any of the boxes, or they can't be refunded. Some people say you can't fill out any of the forms, or they can't be refunded. Some people say the stuff is "old" after three weeks, after which, they can't be refunded. And what if the distributor just doesn't send the refund money? What then? They write back to the hotmail email address? It happens all the time Mary, and then they write me, so don't say it doesn't happen. An ibp is available for $49, but you are bundling it with a bunch of other stuff just to make a larger profit. Does the $399 include a ticket to a "celebration?" What a joke. Is that refundable? 7. We don't put up tacky pole signs Herbalife distributors did. Thousands of them, all over the world. I personally tore down about 400 of them just in Sacramento. I've heard about them from 14 different countries. Tell me what city you live in and I'll have someone send a photo of an herbalife sign from that city. Fliers and business cards too. They are hard to spot, because they don't say herbalife on them, always "work from home, 1,500 - 5,000 mo pt/ft." The phone numbers led to touchfon system out of Utah and featured Chris Carley's voice. I've heard the message more than 100 times. 8. We don't put out tacky 14-page booklets Who, Global Online systems? Just how different from herbalife do you think they are? Aren't they the same pills and powders? Does GOS have their own diet products? 9. $399 is not much to start a BUSINESS That's true. My boss paid $18,000 for a paper cutter. That is a lot of money. But starting a business isn't the best choice for everyone, because not everyone is in a position to lose their investment. And for $399, a person that IS in the position to lose their investment would be a lot better off investing in some other business than herbalife. 10. Many Herbalife companies suck, but ours GUARANTEES success if the person is willing to work consistently and duplicate others' success. They guarantee success if they duplicate success? Ha haha. Hey, I guarantee success at that basketball dream up in question two if you duplicate others' success. 11. YOU cannot guarantee failure, though you claim to I don't guarantee failure. How could I? I'm not making any money, so I couldn't really give them back their money, right? I can't give them back their time either, right? There is a small chance that an herbalife distributor will succeed, but I don't think that tiny chance is worth the investment in time and money. I also don't think the California State Lottery is a good investment, although I don't guarantee that you will lose. 12. We are up front about all costs, we operate on a need-to-know basis. If they're not going to go any further, they don't need to know how much it will cost them. We wait to see if it is even possible for them to go any further (by talking and getting to know them and teaching them), then we tell them how much it will cost them to take the next step in building their business. Why don't you ask someone, someone who isn't in herbalife, what "up front" means, because you don't understand the term the same way that I do. Unless your monster.com ad says "$399" on it somewhere. 13. a pregnant woman would NOT want a doctor who has never delivered a baby before to deliver her baby, and finally, Yes, you are correct, but you don't have to HAVE Cancer to KNOW AN AWFUL LOT about Cancer. 14. I am trying to help people make better lives for themselves!! You are trying to make money. I am trying to help people make better lives for themselves. ------ I'm not going to paste an unsuccessful story onto this email. It is already reallly long. Rob
July 1st, 2004 Dearest Rob, Oh Rob. You still don't get it. Thank you for finally RESPONDING to what I wrote, though. Let's go back over the 14 points, shall we? Here I go again! I LOVE always being able to trump you. This is so much fun. I'm so much smarter than you it's a trip! You are so out of your league. Before you chastise me about insulting you, take a look at the insult you wrote me first. 1. Hmmm. Nope. I'm not caught in a logic trap. Thanks for playing! I define an expert as someone who has LOTS of experience, good or bad in whatever field they are claiming to be an expert in, and also knows a bunch of information about whatever it is they claim to be an expert at. Were you absent the day they taught the word in school? expert: n. : one who has special SKILL or knowledge, a specialist. -adj. : skillful as the result of TRAINING or EXPERIENCE. That's straight out of the "Funk & Wagnalls Standard Desk Dictionary." SKILLFUL, Rob, not DEFICIENT. The expert has SPECIAL SKILL or knowledge. They don't have special DEFICIENCY and knowlegde, AS YOU DO!!!!!! Except you don't even have deficiency, because you've NEVER EVEN TRIED IT!!! WAKE UP ROB! SEE THE LIGHT! Look it up yourself. I still don't see how you can see yourself as an expert at GOS or Herbalife when you've never even been in the business. 2. Yes, you are parading as an expert, and stealing people's dreams. Perhaps I should clarify that for the less intelligient of the two of us: I'm obviously talking about FINANCIAL dreams. Money is everywhere, and available to anyone who wants to work for it. There are even people in our system who started off on welfare and are now making over 10 grand a month. And I don't take it lightly that you are telling people they can't make the income of their dreams, when I know they can, if they learn from people who are already doing it. Did I dumb it down enough for you Rob? Do you get it this time? Obviously YOU do take giving people financial freedom lightly. Aw, I'm so disappointed, I thought you were trying to help people. 3. If you put GOS on your website as one of the companies that puts out those crappy 14 page booklets and those ugly signs, YOU ARE LYING. Yeah. Duh. WE DON'T DO THAT, for the umpteenth time. 4. I'm talking about my GOS website. It's nothing but truth. I haven't looked into every aspect of the Herbalife website, but from all I've seen it's nothing but truth as well. We're just like any other business. We can't get away with false advertising or any sorts of lies. We're regulated by the U.S. and Canadian government, for heavens sake! 5. Good Lord, Rob, I had no idea you were this stupid. The whole point of something being a money-back guarantee is so that the customer CAN SEE WHAT THEY'RE GETTING before they commit completely to paying the money for it. That is so basic I really cannot see WHY you can't understand it. If you buy a can of corn and you get no corn in it, take it back and get another can! Even some guy from Peja (wherever that is) can understand that! 6. If anyone is TOLD verbally by a coach or distributor that they will get their money back, and they don't get it back, THEY CAN REPORT THEM TO THE POLICE. I've done it myself! Another duh, Rob. Geez, man, I thought you were smarter than that. And I know it's true that some distributors don't give money back, but you know what? That is a naturally occuring weakness in our system. We cannot control every single person. We're not Communism. Every person has their own business, and we cannot FORCE them to duplicate success. Not every person in GOS is very good at what they do, or very ethical, that's true. But that's true in every organization, and it's only true in ours because whoever it is that is unethical or bad at what they do refuses to duplicate success from people who have already been successful. 7. SOME Herbalife distributors did and probably still do put up tacky pole signs. GLOBAL ONLINE SYSTEMS DOES NOT. 8. No, dum dum, we're not different from Herbalife. We're a division of Herbalife. We market and sell Herbalife. You are so THICK. GLOBAL ONLINE SYSTEMS DOES NOT SEND OUT TACKY 14 PAGE BOOKLETS. 9. No starting a business is NOT for everyone!!!!! That's why we tell them after they have looked at the Decision Package that it costs $399!!! How many times do I have to repeat myself here?! 10. You obviously don't understand the concept of duplicating success. Though I've been illustrating it in every e-mail. I'm talking about FINANCIAL SUCCESS, once again. I know that you know that, Rob. You're just grasping at straws, trying to come up with some half-assed answer to all of my "concerns." Someone who HAS been in this business, WHO IS AN EXPERT, is teaching ME how to make as much money as they do!!!!! Ha! Ha! Ha! Is that clear enough for you? To make it even simpler for you, I am DUPLICATING their SUCCESS!! 11. As I've said so many times before, Global Online Systems IS a good system, and I CAN GUARANTEE success, if the person works consistently and is teachable. 12. You can disagree all you want on what up front means. We may not tell you as soon as you click on the first website about the $399. But we offer to do follow up calls on it and when they ask how much it costs, we let them know!!! The system WORKS, no matter how shady you think it is. I'm on my way to financial freedom right now, because of it, just as SO MANY other people are. As I said before, we give information on a need to know basis. If they're not going to pursue the business, there is no reason to offer the information. Do you understand that? And guess what? We do offer another package that is not 399, it is only about $70, but that is just to become an Herbalife distributor, and you don't get any coaching or help, and you don't get a one month supply of the products to try for yourself. 13. No you don't have to have cancer to know an AWFUL LOT about cancer, but if you do have cancer, who are you going to want to consult about treatment options? The doctor that has only studied it, or the doctor who has not only studied it, but treated it successfully? You are the equivalent of the first doctor, I am the equivalent of the second doctor, and your poor writers (God bless'm) simply do not realize that fact. 14. Now here is where I respond to your insult. Sorry for your delusion, Rob, but yes, most of us at Global Online Systems, especially me, are trying to help people make better lives. We're teaching them to make as much money as we do. And you are just a mosquito, a small irritation that tries to get in the way, but all I've got to do is smack you and you're dead. (sorry I know that's a huge stretch to ask you to understand that analogy). You may have some intelligience, Rob. But most of it has been blocked out by this HUGE wall you've put up that says ALL HERBALIFE DISTRIBUTORS ARE THE WORST PEOPLE ON THE PLANET AND THEY JUST WANT TO TAKE YOUR MONEY. I've tried to slowly chip away at it, but it is impenetrable. I truly, truly, feel sorry for you. I know that you're miserable. Is that all you do all day long, report how bad Herbalife is? Does that make you happy? Why? I just don't get people like you, man. I hope and pray that you get better. Sorry for the insults, I had to fire back to the tremendous one you fired at me. Yep, it's immature and selfish and wrong and doesn't accomplish anything but make me feel better about myself, but so be it. Write back if you want, I'm tired of trying. You keep responding, having not taken anything of what I say into account. You're just too slow for me, Rob. You keep grasping at straws, never giving me REAL reasons why my points are wrong to you. I'm literally talking to a wall. I've responded to your accusations. I don't know why you are interested in e-mailing me; I guess you want to put whatever I write on your website to use it against Global Online Systems. That's fine. I'll be making money without your approval, and teaching others to do it. I was interested in e-mailing you because you have lies on your website up for all to see about GOS, and I just wanted to let you know that, in case you didn't. It was interesting for a while, because I really enjoyed proving you wrong on EVERY SINGLE point you brought up. But now it's just gotten old. You're a negative aspect of my life that I don't want to have in it anymore, unless I ask for it. So have a nice life Rob. Insult me back if you like. Maybe you'll spark my interest again and I'll write back. Until then, God bless, and PLEASE go out and get a better life. Sincerely, Mary E. J.
Hey Mary, I specifically avoided insulting you. Here is an unsuccessful letter from March. It specifically refers to GOS. ----------- Subject: Victim who worked very very hard in the Global Online System Hi Rob My name is Stanley and I have been in the Global Online System (selling HERBALIFE products) for more than one year. I lost more than $7000 Canadian in total following all their rules and attending all their trainings. All my downlines lost on average $3000Canadian(of course, some of them are not serious as I was). I met Debbie Stoltz, her husband Gerry, Martin Lyttek, Shawn Dahl, Dwayne Norris and my coach Deborah Haskins personally. I don't know if I should call them "bad" people or not. But the reality was they "had to" lie to everyone interested in the system and get them to pay. Joining and working in the Global Online System was a completely nightmare to me. It was the biggest regret in my life. Here are the BIGS LIES that you will hear in the Global Online Training. Lie #1: Global Online System (GOS) is a business offering better opportunities for making large sums of money than all other tranditional business and professional models. If you don't make money, it's because you complain too much and you are not serious. Truth: For almost everyone who invests GOS turns out to be a losing financial proposition. I was losing money every single month in the business (from Mar 2002- Mar 2003) working 10 hours per day, but I had to lie on the stage that I was making large sum of money. Lie #2: Eventually all products will be sold by Global Online System, a new form of marketing. Retail stores, shopping malls, catalogues and most forms of advertising will soon be rendered obsolete by MLM. Truth: Most my downlines were forced to sell their Herbalife products through Ebay since their products simply didn't "move". Most GOS customers quit buying the goods as soon as they quit seeking the "business opportunity." There is no brand loyalty. These basic facts show that, as a marketing model, GOS is not replacing existing forms of marketing. It does not legitimately compete with other marketing approaches at all. Rather, GOS represents a new investment scheme that uses the language of marketing and sales of products. Lie #3: Global Online System is a new way of life that offers happiness and fulfillment. It is a means to attain all the good things in life. Truth: It was a miserable year for me and all my downlines. I told my coach Deborah that I was depressed since I had no more money in my bank. She told me not to tell my downlines about it and suggested that I should ask my parents to borrow money. Lie #4: You can do Global Online System in your SPARE time. As a business, it offers the greatest flexibility and personal freedom of time. A few hours a week can earn a significant supplemental income and may grow to a very large income making other work unnecessary Truth: THIS IS THE BIGGEST LIE!!! Working in GOS requires extraordinary time commitment as well as considerable personal wiliness, persistence and deception. Beyond the sheer hard work and special aptitude required, the business model inherently consumes more areas of ones life and greater segments of time. They say "work at the comfort of your home with your kids", but this is a BIG LIE! They encouraged me to go out there and do pull tabs and posters every night during winter! Lie #5. Global Online System is a positive, supportive new business that affirms the human spirit and personal freedom. Truth: GOS materials reveal that much of the message is fear-driven and based upon deception about income potential. Solicitations frequently include dire predictions about the impending collapse of other forms of distribution, the disintegration or insensitivity of corporate America and Canada, and the lack of opportunity in other professions or services. Conventional professions, trades and business are routinely demeaned and ridiculed for not offering 'unlimited income.' Employment is cast as wage enslavement for 'losers.' MLM is presented as the last best hope for many people. This approach, in addition to being deceptive, frequently has a discouraging effect on people who otherwise would pursue their own unique visions of success and happiness. A sound business opportunity does not have to base its worth on negative predictions and warnings. Lie #6. Global Online System is the best option for owning your own business and attaining real economic independence. Truth: GOS is NOT true self-employment. 'Owning' an MLM distributorship is an illusion. Participation requires rigid adherence to the 'duplication' model, not independence and individuality. GOS distributors are NOT entrepreneurs but joiners in a complex hierarchical system over which they have little control. Bob, please help me spread this msg out. I am tired of seeing victims being blamed about not being serious enough. -Stanley Cheng --- I have a lot of fun with the rest of my site. You should check out cockeyed.com if you want to see the fun stuff I do. I'm actually a very fun person! Oh, please don't forget to include your website address in your next letter. -Rob
Ok Rob, just to answer your comment, I'll let you figure out what my website is yourself, on the chance that you will probably put my own personal website in your derogatory website. Find it, visit it; I only hope you don't ruin it or something somehow because you hate me or something. Well, I'll know who it was if it does get ruined. No one else has anything against me, except you. It's just like all the other GOS websites, in case you were wondering. Just a different name at the end. THANK YOU for responding with something REAL. That guy is a very sad story. That's the story you should have sent me FIRST. But that guy is ONE guy. It's a 2 billion dollar business, Rob. You and I would be really deluding ourselves if we believed that not one person is going to be dissatisfied with it. As I said before, not everyone is good at GOS. He's one of them. You're deluding yourself further, though, if you think he represents the majority of the people in GOS. You know what Rob? It takes a certain type of person to make $10 grand a month. In this business, YOU EARN WHAT YOU'RE WORTH. I'm that kind of person. He's obviously NOT. He's not me. His downline is not my downline. I won't let his sad story stop me, and neither will my downline. And CERTAINLY neither has my upline. I don't know what that guy did; he seemed angry that he couldn't do what he wanted to do; he probably DIDN'T do what his upline tried to teach him, and that's probably why he failed. It's HIS fault, and HIS problem, and his poor downline was incredibly unfortunate to have run into him. He was bad at it, so the people trying to duplicate him were actually duplicating FAILURE instead of SUCCESS. You're right, that's terrible. I'm certain it's NOT the system's fault, however. The problem started and ended with HIM. I bet I could even ask my upline about him, because I know those people he mentioned personally, about what did happen to him, and I bet that's what they would tell me. I'm not going to though, because once again, it's not worth my time. I already trust my upline. I already know the system is good. As you can see, nothing you can say will make me think differently. And one more thing; you DID insult me, because you said I'm just trying to make money, and not to HELP people. You're basically saying I'm taking advantage of people for my own financial gain. It's not like I've never heard that one before, but THAT, my dear Rob, is INCREDIBLY insulting, at least to me. Obviously you don't even see it as an insult, which speaks volumes to me about the type of person YOU are. I know you hate Herbalife. I love it. Let's agree to disagree. Please. I do not wish to argue with you anymore; you are obviously not going to change your mind. I have done what I intended to do, simply let you know that GOS is a better system than the others you are defaming, and exactly why it is. I know you don't agree with me, but I felt something needed to be said, because I feel very strongly about the integrity of my company. I'm asking you nicely to please leave me alone. It's not worth my time to continue to converse with you, when so many others I converse with are ready to make their financial dreams come true with my help. Have a good day, Rob. Leave me alone. Mary J.
I didn't say you were just trying to make money. -Rob
14. I am trying to help people make better lives for themselves!! You are trying to make money. I am trying to help people make better lives for themselves. This above in blue, is EXACTLY what you wrote, I cut and pasted it. So now you're just OUTRIGHT lying. I said I'm trying to help people make better lives for themselves, and you answered with THAT! "You are trying to make money. I am trying to help people make better lives for themselves." Rob. That obviously implies that you think I'm out to get people by scamming them out of their money. If that's not what you meant by that statement, I must have just been living under a rock or something never speaking to people and not getting what they mean by the context of what they say. Sorry if I was mistaken, but yes, I did take that as a direct insult at my character. Mary
Do not e-mail me again. You will be reported if you do so.
So, that was it. I stopped writing, and I figured this was over, like most Herbalife conversations. However, this one has a surprise ending, sent a year and a half later:
August 18, 2005 Rob, This is M. Johnson, you may remember some of our e-mail conversations from about a year ago; I was in Global Online Systems, now Online Business Systems. Let me apologize for anything and everything I wrote to you in defense of either of those systems, because I was most definitely WRONG. This is a letter I wrote to my coaches when I decided I had to stop: I started off doing very well because I had some extra money to spend, but buying leads cost so much (over $1500 per month), I could no longer afford to continue because I wasn't making any profit to buy leads with. I paid for the $399 package and then became a Supervisor for $4000. I was on "fast track" teams, I held shake parties, I put out thousands of flyers, I sounded very natural doing the "scripts;" I did pretty much EVERYTHING they told me I should do to build my business. I ended up losing over $25,000 trying to keep the business going. So now that I have finally learned from my painful experience, I would love to give you information in case you wanted to update your site. Online Business Systems is what used to be Global Online Systems. They just changed the name. The decision package is $39.95 +$9.00 shipping. The start-up package is $399, not $299. The cost to be a Supervisor is approximately $4000, not $2000. I was also tricked into thinking that if you recruit a Supervisor, YOU get the $4000. I was horribly wrong. You get about $300 of that money. What's up with that? I sold the goods to them, and I only get a lousy fraction of it? Recruiting Supervisors is where they tell you the big money is, and you think, well of course, it's $4000! Well, that is where the biggest money is, but the biggest money is only about $300. You don't even get the 50% profit they promise! How are we supposed to make a living, selling products that no one will buy because they are way too expensive? Only about 1 in 10 people are like me and are duped into spending $4000 to become Supervisors. Even if they do spend it, none of it goes to the recruiter. A pretty raw deal, if you ask me. Well, once again, I apologize for being a retard. I hope you have already forgotten about it, and I hope you find this information useful. Sincerely, M. J.
!!! Wow. I'm sitting here with my mouth hanging open. I can't believe you wrote me back after all that! We wrote some very, very long and acidic emails back and forth! I think some of them had 14 points! Thanks a ton for writing and giving me the bad news. Wow. Seriously, that takes a lot of heart and I really appreciate it. How many distributors did you have at your best time? -Rob
That's it! I'm very impressed Mary had the leather to email me back and apologize and help me! What an awesome gesture! Hats off to you Mary J.!

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August 22, 2005.

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